Blogging Against Racism Week

[sarahmichigan]

I've seen it noted in a few places that this is "Blogging Against Racism Week."

Of course, I think Racism is Bad. And I can come up with a fistful of personal anecdotes as well as statistics to counter anyone who says that racism is a thing of the past and isn't a problem today.

But there are so many issues where I just don't know what to think. Here are some issues I'm conflicted or confused about:

-Racism and humor. What's the difference between a joke about racism and a racist joke? Who's allowed to make jokes that are racially charged? Should white people lose their jobs over making racist jokes?

-Racism and "The N Word". For the most part, only white people who are rednecks (yes, I know this is a racially charged word as well- I come from redneck stock and think I'm allowed to use it) or blatantly racist use this term with any regularity these days. Should Blacks stop using it as well? Should there be MORE use of it to diffuse the charge of the word, kind of like diffusing other epithets like "bitch" or "slut" or "dyke"?

-How to talk about race. How do we start a dialogue about racism and race without ending up in accusations, shutting people down, and making people feel like they can't talk about it at all?

Maybe some of the blog posts I'll read this week will shed some light on one or more of those issues. I'm not sure if I'll post more about the topic or not; it seems like there are plenty Guilty White Liberals posting about race already.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_scarlet_ibis_/]

Also, what about "reverse racism", which is really just racism... but we're not allowed to acknowledge it.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I don't like the term "reverse racism" because it implies there's a proper direction for racism. :)

But, yeah, I know what you're getting at. I think it falls into my third category (i.e. 'How can we talk about racism without accusations or shutting people down?')

[bernmarx.livejournal.com]

There is a valid argument to be had that, in the United States, only whites are "racist," but that argument depends highly on how "racism" is defined. Using the simple dictionary definition, that racism is making negative assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin, yes, of course blacks (and latinos and other minorities) can be racist. But in conversations on racism, there's frequently a more powerful definition at play: Racism is (in that view) using social power and traditional attitudes to make sure that certain privileges stay with people of a particular skin color. From that perspective, it's much less clear that blacks can be racist (although, to rebut myself, it's not impossible, depending on what "certain privileges" we're talking about -- certain members of the various "oppressed" classes have learned over the last decades how to leverage SWAMP* Guilt to get special treatment).

* Straight White Anglo Male Protestant, my own acronym.

only whites are "racist," but that argument depends highly on how "racism" is defined

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify, most minorities who make that argument say it's possible for a racial minority to be "prejudiced" but not "racist" because "racist" implies that the person so named has the power and/or privilege in that context.

[stacycat69.livejournal.com]

Using most definitions of "isms," reverse racism is not actually a fact.

The way we describe in it sociology is that there is prejudice, which is someones thoughts, there is discrimination, which is actively doing something discriminatory, and there is racism, which is an institutional power.

There are two great books out there. The first is "Racism without Racists" by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva. He describes how people perpetuate racist thoughts without thinking that they are "racist." The second is "Silent Racism" by Barbara Trepagnier, which states that everyone is racist, and people just need to learn what they can to try to minimize the institutional impact.

Until people can actually listen to one another, nothing will be acomplished. And, until people realize that racism is truely institutional, nothing will be done.

[lefthand.livejournal.com]

I find the whole issue of racism tiresome simply because I have heard it for so long. I don't think we are actually making any progress by making the subject taboo. The only thing that changes is that people stop talking about it around people who might alter their opinion / report them.

I personally believe that when we focus too closely on the words, they lose all meaning as is illustrated by your third point.

Tiresome

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I think it's easy for white people to get sick of a discussion about race since we rarely experience it, to the point that it shocks us if/when we do.

I have, within my lifetime, heard a boss talk about not wanting to hire black people and have had a friend cursed out and called the "N" word by a boss upon her departure, so I hardly think that racism should just be swept under the rug and not discussed.

Re: Tiresome

[lefthand.livejournal.com]

I have experienced it over and over from both ends. The problem is that it doesn't apply to the situations it should and is used as a club where it is inappropriate.

Stepping back, shouldn't it be someone's right to hire whomever they want? Shouldn't they be allowed to think, feel and say whatever they want? The problem with the racism debate is that presumes to tell people how they should think and that is just as wrong as being a bigoted idiot.

If we are going to talk about, we need to let go of the idea that there is a single way to to view the issue, otherwise it is simply a lecture rather than a conversation.

[purple-marf.livejournal.com]

I sometimes go a little too far in my belief that most questions have black & white answers (hah!). But on this one, it seems easy. Don't do it at work. You might have the funniest racially-charged joke on the planet, and if you told it, everyone within earshot would be convinced you were the wittiest guy alive. Don't tell it at work. Seriously. Why is it necessary?

Other than that, do what you want to. Unless you're a public govt offical(sorry, anything you say in public counts as being "at work" - you get plenty of other perks to make up for it), what you say on your own time is your own business.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

But what about comedians who address racism through humor (i.e. Lenny Bruce, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia, etc.)?

This is what I mean about the difference between a joke about race and a racist joke.

[bernmarx.livejournal.com]

To what extent does Mencia (as a blatant example) make jokes aimed at bringing discussions of race to the forefront, and to what extent does he make such jokes because he also happens to be a bigot*, but since he's a Latino bigot, he can get away with it?

I don't know the answer (and I reckon that's something like what you're asking, too).

* I'm not saying he is, by the way.

[purple-marf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I stick to what I personally am going to do. I mean, it's easy to say now that anyone going to their shows KNOWS they're going to hear that kind of racially charged humor - but I wonder if their first few crowds were very tense, or mixed reactions?

Comedy is SO hard because it kind of relies on being outside your comfort zone in some respect just to be funny in the first place.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

This gets back to my point about how to have a discussion about race/racism without shutting people down or pointing fingers, but I am really tempted to unfriend you right now.

I can't believe anyone would come on my journal and say that it's OK to discriminate in hiring based on race.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

oops, that last comment wasn't directed at you, k. the comment was for a different thread.

[sylo-tode.livejournal.com]

I think a joke about race says, "Let's examine at this issue through humor."

A racist joke, however, says, "Let's degrade them by ridiculing them."

[bernmarx.livejournal.com]

An excellent example of a joke about race (well, ethnicity, but the same basic conversation): Years ago, there was a Polish sports figure (I believe he was in football) who had a TV commercial for some product or other. In it, he said, "Sometimes people ask me what I think of Polish jokes. I'll tell you, I love Polish jokes! They're my favorite. Here's one, for instance..." and proceeds to tell a joke in Polish. It was a classic meta-joke, because on one level it showed him turning the prejudice on its ear, and on another it played off the "clueless Polack" stereotype (i.e., he was too dumb to know what a "Polish joke" was).

[purple-marf.livejournal.com]

Well said.

[guttaperk.livejournal.com]

I'd like to reply to you, but I'm too overwhelmed right now from recent discussions about race.

In the meantime, feel free to post. Don't worry about the glut of White Liberal Guilt- most of that is fake anyhow.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I'm feeling overwhelmed by the discussion I just started, so I can only imagine how you're doing with it.

Ironic that my post about not wanting to shut people down or point fingers during discussions of racism is infuriating me to the point that I want to start dropping people (or at least one person) off my FL. Ugh.

[dregory.livejournal.com]

"Not one white guy would change places with me...and I'm Rich. There's a white bus boy backstage with one arm and one leg and he'd say, nah, I'd like to see how this white thing pans out." - Chris Rock

[arkaycee.livejournal.com]

One thing that feels in its infancy about sexism or racism is that the discussion is pressured against talking about any differences. We so have to pretend they don't exist (and maybe that's what's needed as a society about these things for now anyway). When you're first educating a child, you give them much broader rules that as they grow have nuances and exceptions.

What if that coach years ago was right, that black men *statistically* tend to have a slightly different musculature that enables them to {do some aspect of something to do with football I think it was, better} (I'm hoping someone with a better memory than I tend to regarding things sportslike can help me fill that in more accurately)? We pretty much can't have that conversation as a society right now.

I think what it is, is that if differences are acknowledged, they can be misused as reasons to make value judgments and discriminate ("ummm, I dunno, we can't go hiring black men for this job, as with their statistically larger muscles, we'll need to on the average buy larger uniform sizes that cost more" -- ok very contrived example but I hope it's illustrative).

Also, sometimes we walk a tightrope -- some women get severe PMS for example. So do we ignore that? Or do we pay attention to it, and then risk some people's dismissal of every woman's strong emotional point of view as "she must be PMSing"?

I'm hopeful of someday a society where we can acknowledge the legitimate differences between any groups of people, and yet not misuse them.

[guttaperk.livejournal.com]

I get what you're saying, but:

The reason is because the vast majority of speculated differences are racist bullshit, and it gets oppressively exhausting for black folk to be burdened with refuting them all the damned time. And yes, the burden falls disproportionately on black people. Being able to ignore racist bullshit at will is part of white privilege.

[stacycat69.livejournal.com]

See, this is where sociology comes in. I love my field sometimes.

Why does it seem like black men are better athletes than white men? Why are black men overrepresented in sports such as basketball and football, and white men bigger in individual sports like golf or fencing or cycling?

Part of it is class, and part is the social construction of race. Black kids may be subtly pushed into 1) team sports, and 2) sports in general, because, no, they arent smart enough to get into college based on academics, right? (sarcasm). Whereas the rich white kids are encouraged to get into academics, and individual "thinking" sports.

DNA wise, I am more similar to the black woman down the street than I am to my white roommate. There is more differentiation within a "race" than between the races. There are biological differences between sexes with hormones. (And, I piss off a lot of feminists by saying that :-)

[holzman.livejournal.com]

Should white people lose their jobs over making racist jokes?

If they do so on the job, you bet. Unprofessional behavior is grounds for dismissal.

Should Blacks stop using it as well?

That's something for blacks to decide -- as whites we're not the people impacted by the use of the word, so it's simply not our call.

How to talk about race. How do we start a dialogue about racism and race without ending up in accusations, shutting people down, and making people feel like they can't talk about it at all?

I would direct your attention to Be Present (http://www.bepresent.org). They've got a model that seems to work.

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

Thanks for stopping in to read and for the link. :)