sarahmichigan (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sarahmichigan) wrote2005-10-05 11:14 am
sarahmichigan) wrote2005-10-05 11:14 am
Entry tags:
Race, weight, diet
This Big Fat Blog post is mostly about being appalled that some journalist is saying that Fat Acceptance is "disempowering" and that higher body self-esteem in minority populations is misplaced and dangerous. However, the very long discussion in the comments about eating disorders, dieting, and the "intuitive eating" approach were incredibly fascinating to me.
Many people hear about the Overcoming Overeating Approach, or even try parts of it, and think it doesn't work because they still overeat, even after they "legalize" all food and stop dividing food into "good" and "bad" columns. They feel the MUST have some food restrictions, calorie-counting, etc. in place or they'll overeat. My contention, and that of several other commenters, is that you're not seeing the full picture if you believe you'll be "out of control" in your eating habits without outside, arbitrary limits. "Legalizing" foods is just part of the process-- you also have to understand when you're eating for emotional reasons rather than for hunger. You need to examine the politics about weight, fat, food, and gender in this country (Fat IS a feminist issue). Legalizing all foods is just one of many steps to undoing all the sick cultural conditioning we all have pounded into us about food, fat, weight, and morality.
The comments by the registered dietician working with eating disordered clients who was a binger herself are incredibly touching.
http://www.bigfatblog.com/archives/000488.php#comments
Many people hear about the Overcoming Overeating Approach, or even try parts of it, and think it doesn't work because they still overeat, even after they "legalize" all food and stop dividing food into "good" and "bad" columns. They feel the MUST have some food restrictions, calorie-counting, etc. in place or they'll overeat. My contention, and that of several other commenters, is that you're not seeing the full picture if you believe you'll be "out of control" in your eating habits without outside, arbitrary limits. "Legalizing" foods is just part of the process-- you also have to understand when you're eating for emotional reasons rather than for hunger. You need to examine the politics about weight, fat, food, and gender in this country (Fat IS a feminist issue). Legalizing all foods is just one of many steps to undoing all the sick cultural conditioning we all have pounded into us about food, fat, weight, and morality.
The comments by the registered dietician working with eating disordered clients who was a binger herself are incredibly touching.
http://www.bigfatblog.com/archives/000488.php#comments
no subject
I'm talking about the morbidly obese, and from my own experience, I DO think their obesity is tied to their self-esteem, and that it's not (despite the read I got from some comments on BFB) primarily an external. The people I've known who are so obese I have trouble being around them (with one exception, my sister-in-law) have been so utterly miserable, I'd have trouble being around them if they weren't obese. I don't get a lot of sense out of saying, "Yay! Hooray! You're so miserable that you've eaten your therapist!"
I get that mocking isn't productive, I agree that for people who are obese because they're miserable, making fun of them isn't going to do anything for their esteem (and hence, their waistlines). On the other hand, I don't personally think that celebrating is constructive, either. If someone spends all their time playing video games instead of cleaning the house, neither mockery nor celebration will get that behavior to change, either.
So this is the reaction I have when I see people saying we should celebrate the overweight. For most people, I think weight is what it is. *shrug* Not something to mock, not something to celebrate.
no subject
I'm fat and I'm proud! eventually will fade to, "Yeah, I'm a big girl. So what?"
I dislike make us/them statements like "we're heavy but THEY're morbidly obese," particularly since obesity and overweight are 90 percent social constructs and 10 percent medical reality. Further, if I start thinking that way ("Well, I'm OK because I'm 200 lbs. At least I'm not 250 lbs.") it's not healthy, because I used to think that 200 lbs. would be the Worst Thing Ever when I weighed 170.
I can't make arbitrary cut off points that xxx amount of pounds is always healthy while xxx amount of pounds is OK. Do I think some weights up at the statistical extremes are pretty much always unhealthy (let's say Guiness World Book weights like 800-1,000 lbs)? Yes, but I think there's a big gray area between 150 lbs. and 400 lbs. probably, in terms of the "Can you be fit AND fat?" debate.
I think many obese people are unhappy and have low self-esteem, but it's hard to tell in the chicken-egg equation which came first. Are they unhappy because they're fat or because of fat discrimination and bullying? both?
no subject
As with most chicken-and-egg scenarios, I think the answer is, in many cases, both. Some people start out perhaps a little overweight, and learn to tie that weight with other things wrong with their life, especially when other kids tease them. The depression and the overeating become joined, and evolve together. Then it becomes a cat-rat farm: If they lost weight, they'd feel better about themselves, which means it's their fault their sad because they haven't lost the weight, and so they eat to make themselves feel better. As someone who has battled depression himself, I know that, in those case, just identifying the cause doesn't go a long way towards fixing it -- I have, and still sometimes do, identify as "a depressed person," and one anxiety I have is what will happen if I stop being depressed? I don't have labels for myself (although I'm developing them) that translate to "a content person." Having the realization, "I'm 450# because..." isn't useful in my opinion unless there's another thought, "I've become 280# because..." ready to take its place.
no subject
But, if I'm reading you right, I think I agree with the general gist of your comments.
Thinking, "I'm great because I'm fat!" is just as ridiculous as thinking, "I'm bad because I'm not thin!" Making weight a non-issue in your self-esteem is really the goal.
no subject
no subject
I agree that it is not healthy to think obsessively about one's weight, whatever that may be. And also that
"social stigma" is not necessarily a good motivator for people to change--or that people should change to fit someone else's standards.
However, I also believe that the deeper problem has nothing to do with what someone weighs, it's more a problem of living in a culture and an economy that thrives off of telling people there is something wrong with them.
I totally believe that we are more lazy, unhealthy and sedentary than maybe we've ever been. I believe that most of the food we eat contributes to mental and physical health problems, and that Americans put a lot of shit in their body that is really, really bad for them.
But I think thin women worry about their bodies just as much as fat women, or women anywhere in between. I have always been thin, and people bigger than me have always made the assumption that I was thrilled with it, that I must have it so much easier, am so much less oppressed because of it, etc. I was also teased and called names in school because I appeared to some to be underweight and "anorexic," when in fact I was constantly trying to gain weight. I see thin women being demonized just as much as fat women, though it's seems more acceptable (at least among the more "liberal" and "body positive" groups I tend to be around) to hate thin women. There's something wrong with that, too.
The media, peers, and just life in this culture will always point out something about ourselves that we could "fix." I don't think it's so much about fat or thin being a better place to be--but the article was not off in suggesting that sitting in front of the TV three hours a day, eating McDonalds or candy is an unhealthy and disempowering habit for anyone to have, regardless of body size. It seemed like some of the response posts went so far as to praise genuinely unhealthy behavior patterns, like eating whatever we want.
Is it wrong to say that it's not ok to eat whatever we want? How is it different from making some other choice to take care of oneself? I might really enjoy eating a whopper, but I know that it's horrible for me and that it will actually cause me to feel more moody than I already am--so should I do it anyway just because I want to? That's not empowering, it's just defiant. There are lots of things I might like the immediate effects of, and that doesn't mean I should do them. Also, food and hunger affect the same part of the brain that becomes affected when drug addiction and alcoholism are present--so I realize that to some extent a person's control over what they put into their bodies may be impaired (and lots of people with eating disorders also have substance abuse problems)--but that doesn't mean they should do it just to prove they don't care what others think about it.
...my thoughts are not entirely organized around this, but it made me think a lot.
no subject
I totally believe that we are more lazy, unhealthy and sedentary than maybe we've ever been. I believe that most of the food we eat contributes to mental and physical health problems, and that Americans put a lot of shit in their body that is really, really bad for them.
Yes and no. Americans are terribly conflicted about being "lazy". We work SO much harder than many Europeans, though, in terms of hours worked per week and how many holidays we get (or don't get) off. When you spend 60 hours tied to a desk and have cities built for driving, not walking, it's hard for the average person, let alone the average parent, to find time to exercise. Many Europeans have the 'luxury' of being able to have exercise built into the work day because they can more easily walk or bike to work. And Americans do eat shit, but I'm sure you're aware of the idea that it's hard to eat whole foods when you're poor, because of access to supermarkets, etc.
But I think thin women worry about their bodies just as much as fat women, or women anywhere in between. . .though it's seems more acceptable (at least among the more "liberal" and "body positive" groups I tend to be around) to hate thin women. There's something wrong with that, too.
I totally agree with you. I try VERY hard not to demonize smaller women and realize they have their issues. I had a tiny anorexic friend in college who was appalled that people felt it was OK to tease her about her size (most people who teased her had no idea she had an ED). But I'm a big woman, and I can only give my take on things from my own experience of having trouble with body acceptance.
It seemed like some of the response posts went so far as to praise genuinely unhealthy behavior patterns, like eating whatever we want.
See, I don't think "eating whatever we want" is unhealthy. I think we've just been societally (and by our families) programmed to "want" things that aren't good for us in large quantities. I think that if we all listened to our body wisdom, we would eat what we want in appropriate quantities. But the diet culture, the fast food industry, the snack food companies program us to think bigger portions, more chemicals, etc. are what we crave.
And telling women who have disordered eating that "what they want" is not OK is *really* dangerous. The nutritionist who works with disordered eaters talks about telling bingers to go ahead and binge when they're feeling bad. EDs are usually a persons way of trying to nurture themselves, albeit in a fucked up way. I think once we stop "shoulding" on ourselves about food, we'll have a more sane relationship with food. I say this as a vegetarian who eats almost exclusively whole-grain pasta and bread, so I'm not saying that no one should ever try to manipulate thier food intake for health. But making food choices into a moral crusade is a slippery slope to disordered eating, in my experience.
no subject
I might really enjoy eating a whopper, but I know that it's horrible for me and that it will actually cause me to feel more moody than I already am
Yes, this is the SECOND step, after legalizing all food. You are allowed to eat what ever you want, but you also should listen to what your body says about what you're eating. Does it make you feel strong and healthy, or does it give you indigestion? Does it make you feel groggy or awake? This is why I refereced legalizing all foods being just one of several steps. They include: assessing which foods have emotional significance for you, listening to what your body says about how those foods affect you, assessing whether you're eating out of hunger or out of emotion/boredom/etc., and NOT beating yourself up when you eat for the "wrong" reasons or eat the "wrong" foods.
Americans are way too hung up on guilt over sensual pleasure, and I think that plays a big role in disordered eating. and I would say that anyone who diets chronically qualifies for disorded eating, which is one step below the threshhold for a full-on ED.
no subject
Q: If I let go of my food restrictions, won't I just eat everything in sight?!
A: This is a very common fear of people just starting the OO approach. Everyone naturally assumes that if they let go of the food restrictions that they THINK have kept them from overeating, they'll start eating and never stop! However, in reality, the food restrictions were CAUSING the overeating (binging) and by eliminating the restrictions, we can put an end to the "diet-binge cycle". Once we realize we can eat whatever we want, whenever we are hungry (either stomach or mouth), that urgent need to "eat it all NOW" diminishes greatly! To our surprise and amazement, most of us find ourselves eating much less than we previously did while trying to "control" our eating.
Q: What are the stages of the OO process? How long should I work on each stage before moving to the next one?
A:
Dumping the Diet (swearing off dieting and deprivation forever!)
Self-acceptance (accepting ourselves at our current weight, as well as any future changes in our weight - weight has to become a "non-issue" in our lives that has no effect on our self-esteem or well-being.)
Legalizing all foods (making all foods "equal" in our minds. No food is considered "better" or "worse" than any others. All food restrictions are lifted. Special attention usually needs to be given to former "forbidden foods" - those foods that whatever particular diet(s) we were on wouldn't allow us to have.)
Demand feeding (relearning how to eat from the inside out - when our body is hungry, what it's hungry for, and stopping when it's full)
Q: During the legalizing process, how can all foods be "equal" when foods are so different nutritionally?
A: It's important to understand the difference between "nutritional equality" and "mental equality" when it comes to food! During the legalizing process, it is imperative that we forget about the nutritional value of foods and let go of all judgements about whether certain foods are "good for us" or "bad for us". When we say "all foods are equal" - we're talking about the way we THINK about these foods. In our minds, lettuce has to be equal to chocolate, cake has to be equal to carrots, etc.! Once we start to think this way, our BODIES will eventually tell us what foods it needs at any given time. But our MINDS have to get out of the way for this to happen!
Q: How do I let go of dieting and trying to lose weight when society is so obsessed with thinness?
A: By realizing that dieting actually CAUSES compulsive eating and weight gain, we can begin to let go of it. We have been brainwashed by the diet industry to believe that diets can help us. Many of us are so accustomed to having the diets "control us", that letting go of them can be quite scary at first. But the quicker we're able to let go of dieting and weight-loss obsession, the quicker we'll be set free from compulsive eating and be able to move forward with this approach. As far as society goes, it helps us to realize that we can "buck the system" - that just because society is obsessed with appearance and thinness doesn't mean WE have to remain stuck in that trap. We can say "who says?" and take our OWN path in this life. Yes, it takes courage to do this, but with each other's support and encouragement we can succeed.
no subject
Q: Is "stomach hunger eating" considered better than "mouth hunger eating"?
A: Yes, and no! It is our ultimate goal to gradually move towards eating mostly from stomach hunger (demand feeding); however, we will all continue to experience mouth hunger occasionally (as even non-compulsive eaters do!). We have found that it's best to lovingly feed WHATEVER kind of hunger we're experiencing at any given time without laying a guilt trip on ourselves. If we make mouth hunger eating "bad", we'll start to rebel again and this will simply become a "stomach hunger diet"!! If mouth hunger and stomach hunger are considered equally "okay", and we don't struggle or fight against our mouth hunger, eventually we'll find ourselves eating from stomach hunger more often. It will happen naturally, without having to be forced.
Q: What should I do when I have mouth hunger?
A: In short, FEED IT!! After we've been legalizing all foods for some time, we may at times choose to gently nudge ourselves towards waiting for stomach hunger. Sometimes we'll choose to sit with the mouth hunger for a while and see if we can figure out what's causing it - other times, we'll simply feed it and not give it a second thought. But it's always OUR choice!
no subject
There's a quote from a woman, a high-powered attorney and some kind of politician (I forget the specifics) in Paul Campos's "The Obesity Myth" who says that her NUMBER ONE LIFE ACCOMPLISHMENT was losing and keeping off 40 lbs. As a feminist, I find that incredibly sad.