sarahmichigan (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sarahmichigan) wrote2008-03-07 07:04 am
sarahmichigan) wrote2008-03-07 07:04 am
Julia Sweeney on God & Non-belief
You may know Julia Sweeney as an ex-SNL member and not know much more about her. Well, she's an atheist who has written a one-woman show about losing her faith in god, a cancer survivor, and the single mother of an adopted child as well.
She gave a speech at a "Freedom From Religion Foundation" convention not too long ago, and there are excerpts on the FFRF website. I love some of the points she makes about religion and belief (and she's funny, too).
#1. People Want to be good. "When I talk to [my friends] about religion, they don't say, "Oh, did I feel good yesterday thinking how Mary was a virgin and conceived Jesus!" They don't say anything about Catholicism. They talk about the community work that they've done. And that's what they connect with their church. They assign that good feeling to their church."
#2. A code of behavior is often necessary.
#3. People want to be in a club.
#4. People love to hate. "People feel closer to other people if they have a common person they don't like. Come on, everybody knows that's true! And it's true for us, too. Religion delivers on that, too! It gives people an instant common enemy, whether it's Islamic fundamentalists or secularists, that's immediately there and provided. At Saturday Night Live, we were never closer than when Steven Seagal hosted--because we hated him so much!"
Read the whole piece here.
She gave a speech at a "Freedom From Religion Foundation" convention not too long ago, and there are excerpts on the FFRF website. I love some of the points she makes about religion and belief (and she's funny, too).
#1. People Want to be good. "When I talk to [my friends] about religion, they don't say, "Oh, did I feel good yesterday thinking how Mary was a virgin and conceived Jesus!" They don't say anything about Catholicism. They talk about the community work that they've done. And that's what they connect with their church. They assign that good feeling to their church."
#2. A code of behavior is often necessary.
#3. People want to be in a club.
#4. People love to hate. "People feel closer to other people if they have a common person they don't like. Come on, everybody knows that's true! And it's true for us, too. Religion delivers on that, too! It gives people an instant common enemy, whether it's Islamic fundamentalists or secularists, that's immediately there and provided. At Saturday Night Live, we were never closer than when Steven Seagal hosted--because we hated him so much!"
Read the whole piece here.
no subject
- I didn't mean to accuse you of demonising anything. At all.
- I *don't* think it important that "every thought pattern" conform to logic.
- Such conformity is not in keeping with what we know of human neurophysiology- it doesn't seem possible. Emotion runs through everything we do. Even if possible, such conformity hardly seems desirable, far less important...
- I do, however, think it important for things labelled as logical to conform to logic, and for people claiming to be basing positions on logic to do so, or withdraw the claim.
- I think that many atheists who claim to found their worldview in logic are likely fooling themselves. I can't so label any individual atheist who I don't know particularly well, however. Idiosyncratic apathy, ignorance, and rebellion against religion as an unpleasant authority figure are common reasons for atheism in my experience- and valid reasons too, arguably.
- I can't support the idea that any complex human endeavour such as religion can be accurately broadly painted as "logical" or "illogical".
- This is independent of your very real point (http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1332) that we should not blindly accept "illogical" as an insult.
- Your analogy was weakly related at best to what *I* was talking about for reasons that I mentioned; I am talking about irreligious people who demonise, while you seem to be talking about irreligious people who calmly muse. I'm sure it was quite pertinent, however, to the point that you were trying to make.
- I liked the article for many of the same reasons that you do. I'm just noting that Sweeney's reasons apply widely to affiliations other than church and religious ones.
I hope this helps...
adrian
no subject
One issue, I think, is that the logical result of applying deductive reasoning and the Scientific Method to the existence of God is not in fact atheism, it's agnosticism. Atheism requires the additional step of assuming some version of Occam's Razor, that is, that if the natural phenomena of the universe can be adequately explained without a reliance on Deity, then no Deity must exist. But Occam's Razor isn't hard logic, even though it's a rational, reasoned approach. So atheism requires a quasilogical assumption.
I certainly agree with you about people who spend so much of their time attacking theists. I see the reason in a certain amount of challenge -- such as against those religions that put children at risk by refusing medical care -- but blanket bitterness towards religion doesn't accomplish anything useful.